Farm Talk Podcast: All Dogs Rule

In this episode of Farm Talk with Paul Ward, Ventura County Realtor/Broker Paul Ward chats with Russ Avison, co-owner of All Dogs Rule. Located on nearly 20 acres in Fillmore, California – with a converted barn and 2000 Valencia orange trees – All Dogs Rule provides the perfect location for dog day camp, boarding and training. In addition to co-owning the dog day camp and boarding ranch, Russ has been a dog trainer for over 25 years. In this interview. he provides a unique professional insight into the canine psyche that only someone immersed in canine culture for decades can provide. 

In this 27 minute interview, discover why Russ and his wife took over the property on a whim and everything they have accomplished since then. Is there one breed Russ recommends for first time owners? What special place do Cavalier King Charles Spaniels hold in Russ’s heart? Does he have a stance on Pit Bulls? You’ll have to listen to find out!

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All Dogs Rule – Transcript

Hi everyone. It’s Paul Ward here and welcome to another edition of Farm Talk. I’m very excited today. We are at All Dogs Rule in Fillmore, California, and our guest is one of the co-owners Russ Avison. Welcome to the show.

Russ Avison: 

Thank you. Glad to be here.

Paul Ward: 

Absolutely. We certainly want to thank our sponsors, The Money Store and The Escrow Hub for sponsoring our show. So Russ, what is All Dogs Rule?

Russ Avison: 

I haven’t got a clue. (Laugh)  No, All Dogs Rule is a, we call it All Dogs Rule Day Camp and Sleepovers and it’s a cage free boarding environment where you can bring your dog when you have to go away and you can’t take ’em with you. We have over 18 acres here. So the dogs get to run and play and have a great time. But one of the unique things about our business here is that instead of just having a big mass of dogs, which many times can be bad for some of the dogs, dogs are kept in groups of just two, three or four based on their size and their temperament. So it’s a lot easier on the dogs, a lot less stressful, and they have a great time.

Paul Ward: 

This is such a unique setting. We are, we are called Farm Talk. You are a little bit unique in that you’re a dog boarding facility, but you’re set in this beautiful location of orange groves. And you’ve got a river running along the edge of your property, which you would never think would be even possible in Southern California. How did this place come to be?

Russ Avison: 

My wife, Karen and I were doing dog agility for a long time. Karen’s been into agility for years and years, and we had been going up to an agility show up in Madera, California, and on our way back Karen spotted it in one of these like “Horse Trader” or :PennySaver”; A little ad for ranch in Fillmore. We had been out to Fillmore a month or two earlier for a dog show and we kinda liked the area. So we decided to come take a look at this ranch. When the woman who owned the ranch offered it to us, she said, “This is the price.” We said, “We need to talk a little bit more.” So we drove down by the river and Karen and I were looking at each other going, “This is too good to be true, we’ve gotta take it.” So we did. 

We leased the property for about two years and then one day the owner came by and she said, “This area over here needs to be cleaned up.” I said, “Yeah, it does.” And she said, “We know this is kind of a caretaker property.” I said, “Well, you never said that, that wasn’t my agreement.” She looked at me and she goes, “This just isn’t any fun anymore.” I said, well, “Why don’t you sell it to me?” And she did! And so that’s how we got it. 

Paul Ward:

That’s great.

Russ Avison:

As soon as we bought it, we put in for our permits and things. Then we started expanding out and started the business. We had always done a little bit of boarding on the side, but it was only 6, 8, 10 dogs. It was never a big deal. Now it’s gotten to be quite a nice operation and we have a great reputation and that’s how it started.

Paul Ward: 

How many dogs can you accommodate?

Russ Avison:

We can do upwards of about 60 . We still have room to do more but regulations keep us with that 60 but it works out fine. We have no complaints about that.

Paul Ward: 

Sure. And some dogs are by themselves. Some dogs are in a small enclosure with other dogs, and then some dogs are running around in a larger pen. How do you make that determination?

Russ Avison: 

We ask them.

Paul Ward:

Ask who?

Russ Avison:

The dogs. First of all, when dogs come here we ask a series of questions of the owners to find out if their dog is friendly? Do they like big dogs, little dogs? Are they people friendly?  Sometimes we get dogs, for example, that don’t play well with others. So we’re gonna, they still get their time out in the big as we call ’em “The dog park areas,” where they have trees and grass to run around. They still get their time out there. But when they’re not there, we have converted barns and the dogs are kept inside a stall. That’s about 12’ by 15’ with rubber flooring and shavings and elevated beds. Then there’s a big doorway that goes to an outside yard. That’s about 20 by 30 feet. So the dogs run back and forth all day long in there.

If the dog is dog friendly, then we will make sure that we match some other dog by, again, temperament and size. We’ll go out there and make sure that everything’s fine. They get along. Usually, the staff here has been here a long time. Everybody is really good. So we usually know before the dogs know. Sometimes you bring a dog out there and the dogs are all “sniff-sniff” and you watch the dogs. You go, “No, this is not gonna work.” So you take ’em out. And the dog’s like, “Why, what happened?” They  don’t know yet. But you get good at; at being able to size them up. So the dogs will spend some of their time in the converted barn. Then they get, oh, usually at least a third to a half a day out in one of the yards running and playing.

Paul Ward: 

I mean, we’re in a beautiful setting. We’re about, I don’t know, three or four miles from the edge of town.  But in some ways, Fillmore is the middle of nowhere. How do people find you or do they come to you or do you go to them? I mean, we’re not exactly convenient for some folks.

Russ Avison: 

No, we’re not. Even though we, for example, we offer daycare, right. We don’t do a lot of daycare business because unless somebody happens to be traveling through Fillmore on their way to, or from work or something like that, it’s not convenient for them. But we do pick up and delivery. Our van is, or sometimes several vans are out every day. Conejo Valley, we cover Westlake, Thousand Oaks, Newbury Park, Moorpark, Westlake Village. We do, in fact, I know the van is out today picking up a dog in Glendale.

Paul Ward:

Oh, Wow! That’s amazing!

Russ Avison: 

So we have clients use this service. I mean, they pay for it but it’s really convenient for a lot of people. As far as the way they find us, I am also a trainer and I have a training school called “Canine Logic.” My classes are held primarily in the Conejo Valley. So a lot of my students end up becoming customers here as well. 

Paul Ward:

Gotcha.

Russ Avison:

So we’ve built our business entirely on word of mouth. We have never advertised and we years where we grow 10-15%. 

Paul Ward:

Oh wow. 

Russ Avison:

Without having to advertise people like it apparently.  And I know the dogs do. 

Paul Ward: 

Of course. In regards to training, are they one-on-one classes, are they small groups? I mean, do you have big groups of 20 dogs and 20 owners? How does that work?

Russ Avison: 

Well, I do training a couple different ways. I do a lot of one-on-one private, in-home training, especially over the last couple years with COVID people couldn’t go out to classes. We were not allowed to teach classes for a while. So we were doing private training in the backyard of people’s homes. I do privates a lot like this, especially with young puppies that are too young to go out into the world yet. Then I do group classes and I run anywhere from 12 to 15 classes a week. 

Paul Ward:

Wow!

Russ Avison:

All around Conejo Valley, Camillo and Fillmore. Then occasionally we’ll do some training when the dogs come to board with us.

Paul Ward: 

Okay. Is training the dog essentially the same for every dog; is every dog the same down deep or is the training process different for different people?

Russ Avison: 

That’s a really good question because a lot of times somebody will say, “Well, we have this golden retriever puppy and we’ve had three other Goldens and this puppy is different from those other Goldens. I don’t understand.” Because they think all golden retrievers are the same. They are as individual, as people are. There are certain traits that you see in one breed of dog and that’ll carry through for the most part in that breed. But they’re also all individuals. People think that like Border Collies, we have a lot of Border Collies. People think that Border Collies herd all the time. That’s all they want to do. We’ve had Border Collies that have no interest in herding whatsoever. I have one, Luna, she doesn’t have any interest in herding, but she is really into the smells. I mean, she’s smelling on the ground all the time when you go to pet her. The first thing she wants to do is sniff up and down your arm. So I’ve done some scent work with her and she loves it. So there are individual traits of each dog and the training, although you have, it’s just like, if you go take a college course, the course professor will present the material and then some of the students come to the professor afterwards and say, “Listen, I didn’t quite understand this.” And they need to see it from a different perspective to understand it. The dogs are that individual as well. So we have to kind of cater a little bit, depending on how the dog is responding.

Paul Ward: 

So if, if somebody brings, let’s say, a German Shepherd and they bring a Golden Retriever, the training process would start the same for both breeds.

Russ Avison:

Yes. It would start the same. Then we would diverge into different directions depending on how the dog is responding.

Paul Ward:

Gotcha. So Luna is a sniffer. So she might be trained in a different way than somebody who’s a jumper or a digger or a runner.

Russ Avison: 

Well, yeah, if it’s something that you’re trying to resolve, like an issue that you want to get rid of there’s certain basic concepts. In fact, here’s a great tip for everybody watching: All behavior has a consequence. Every single behavior has a consequence. We’re sitting outside right now. The weather’s really nice. Let’s say it suddenly got chilly so you go over to your car and you put on a little sweater and come back, the behavior was, you put on a sweater, the consequence is you’re warmer. Every behavior has a consequence. So if you have a dog giving you behavior that you don’t like, find out what’s in that behavior for the dog and if the consequence is positive or pleasant, they’ll repeat it. If it’s not right, they’ll stay away from it. So you just find out what’s in it and take that part of it away, and the dog will change their behavior. It’s not really rocket science. It is science. Yep. The tough part is figuring out why my dog is doing this. What’s in it for him or her?

Paul Ward: 

Very cool. A couple of questions came to us. Do you train for search and rescue or for TV commercials?

Russ Avison: 

Okay, good question. I personally don’t train for service animals, or search and rescue. In fact, there is a search and rescue organization called “The National Search Dog Foundation.” They’re located just about nine miles from here in Santa Paula . That’s a very specialized type of training for dogs. Someone asked “me, I used to do a show called “Atomic Dog Radio,” and we had Wilma Melville on the show who runs and owns The (National) Search Dog Foundation.” She said, “Here’s the way you tell if you have a dog that’s good for search and rescue. If you go out in the backyard with your dog, you take a ball and throw it over the fence and your dog runs over there and looks over the fence. Then after a couple minutes goes, ’Eh, they wanna do something else.’ That’s not a search dog. If you throw the ball over the fence  and the dog runs over to the fence and sits there and stares, you go to bed at night, come out in the morning and the dog’s still sitting there staring; That’s a good search and rescue dog.” But that’s very specialized service dog training. That’s very, also very specialized, like to help people who need assistance in maneuvering or guide dogs for the blind, things like that. I’ve done a lot of work with those dogs when the puppy raisers have them to bring them up to the point where they’re ready to go into their specialized training. . There’s a lot of different disciplines for that. I can train for therapy dogs. There’s a couple organizations like “TDI”, which is “Therapy Dogs Internationals.” There’s “Create a Smile.” There’s “Love on a Leash.” These are all therapy dog organizations, and I’ve trained a lot of dogs and then signed off for them to go into work for therapy. But the majority of my work is for basically pet dogs and their family members. We teach them how to be good family members.

Paul Ward: 

Very cool. What about have you done any commercial work or movie work or anything like that?

Russ Avison:
Yeah, I’ve done a limited amount. I’ve worked on some commercials and a TV show. I did a PetSmart commercial with a dog. And why actually, I was a consultant on that. And I did a Nintendo commercial with one of my dogs. It’s fun, but it’s really time consuming. Only because usually in this business of television, it’s hurry up and wait, right. Hurry up and wait. You sit around for hours and hours and you work for five minutes and you’re done, but you were there all day for that. If you have a dog that’s really responsive to learning things and can learn quickly- that could be a dog that would be good for commercials and television. 

We have one, we also breed Border Collies and we have one dog- she’s in a commercial right now. That’s running on the air for I think Fleet Prevention or something. We get a dog like that, that has the right look and the camera loves her. You can do lots of things with your dogs. We’ve had dogs that have gone and done little commercials and you get paid 50 bucks and we’ve done ones where you go and you work for an hour and you get $1,500 . So it just varies.

Paul Ward: 

Right. Would you say there’s one breed that if somebody is thinking about getting a dog and they’ve never had a dog, and maybe there’s a little bit of hesitancy by some of the family members, would you say there’s one dog that would be kind of good to look at or not necessarily?

Russ Avison: 

Well, you try, I mean, if you’re trying to match up a family to a dog, you have to look at the personality of the family. Some families are chaotic and not in a bad way. They’ve got kids running in and outta the house, they’re on the go, they’re traveling, they’re doing all these things. Where some families are just in a very cool state. So you wouldn’t want, say a Border Collie, in a family that wants to sit around and watch TV. I mean, this is not gonna work out well. On the other hand, a family that’s chaotic, you wouldn’t want to get, say a German Shepherd. I think that might be a little tough for a family like that. They’re very protective. They’re tougher. Ultimately, I think you can take any dog and make it work with a family. If you can start from the beginning with the puppy; I’ve often said though, as far as a dog, that could be the ambassador for all dogs. It would be a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. 

Paul Ward:

Interesting.

Russ Avison:

A Cavalier King Charles Spaniel to give you an idea, a leaf falls off the tree, right. They wanna run over and make friends with it. I mean, that’s how they are. They’re really sweet, wonderful dogs. But that’s not to take away from any of the other breeds because I have seen wonderful, wonderful Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls have this awful reputation. 

Again, they’re individual dogs, the Pit bulls that are nice. They’re great dogs. They’re wonderful dogs. but there’s been a few that have been raised for the wrong purposes. then the media jumps on that. And suddenly old pit bulls are terrible. They’re not terrible dogs. But just like any other breed, there are certain characteristics that are somewhat in tune with a certain breed. So you have to take that into account when you’re figuring out what kind of dog to get. It’s amazing. I had a woman show up, she’d been through classes through 15 or 20 years with me. She shows up for a new class with something like a 90 or a 100 pound Lab that she rescued; The woman’s 82 years old. This was not the right choice for her. I asked her, “Why’d you get that kind of dog?” She said, “Oh, we’ve always had Labs.” I said, “Yeah, but you haven’t always been 82 years old, it makes a big difference.” So you really should do some research. One other point I wanna make, because this comes up all the time. People are getting two puppies instead of one. We have a rule as trainers. If you have a choice between one or two, take one. People think that if having one puppy is X hard, then having two puppies would be two X hard. It’s not, it’s 10 X . It is so much harder. There’s so many problems you can run into. So that would be the biggest thing I would say is don’t get two, get one. Get one.

Paul Ward: 

What is one thing that you’ve learned about dog training, or maybe even dog boarding that you didn’t expect?

Russ Avison: 

That I didn’t expect? It’s two different disciplines. One you’re boarding when you’re training. 

Paul Ward:

Sure.

Russ Avison: 

Well the one thing with training I will say is that I’ve had to become an expert with people because I’ll tell you my background before I got into this and I’ve been in dog training for almost 25 years. But before this, I was in sales and sales prepared me in a lot of ways to do dog training. Because if there’s a dog that needs training, I need to get to the person. I basically have to sell the person on the concept of training their dog. That’s the hardest thing. It’s getting people to buy in and how to do things because they, so many times, think they know it all and they don’t. Or they think, ‘Look, I can deal with people so I can deal with the dog.’ No, it’s totally different. So that was probably one of the hardest things in training. As far as boarding goes, when we first opened the business, our CPA said, “Oh, so you’re gonna start printing money for a living?” Well, it’s not that way at all, it’s a lot of work. Our day usually starts around 6:30-7 in the morning. And realistically, if I get into bed before 11 o’clock at night, I’m doing well. 

Paul Ward: 

WOW! And you have a big staff.

Russ Avison: 

We do. But, the staff is gone by 6pm and then Karen and I are taking care of things. At night, when it’s time for the dogs to go to bed, we’re putting dogs to bed, we’re giving medications, making sure everybody’s separated where it’s supposed to go. So it is a lot of work.

Paul Ward: 

Yeah. And the dogs don’t take the weekend off.

Russ Avison: 

They do not. We’ve tried that and no, but it’s such a rewarding business. I mean, we’ve been doing that. We’ve had All Dogs Rule open for almost 20 years and I wouldn’t change it. It’s been a great, great endeavor. I love it.

Paul Ward: 

That’s great. Did you stumble into dog training?

Russ Avison: 

Almost literally. Yeah. I had always, as a kid, always trained our family dogs and I grew up with dogs a bit. I don’t know, till the time I was 16, 17 years old. I bet we’d had five, six dogs. So I loved training the dogs. I loved having the dogs around. Then I was in broadcasting after college for a while and I got into sales before they had match.com and Tinder and all these things. AOL had something called “Love at AOL.” Okay. And it was like chat rooms basically, but you would put in a little profile and then people would look at your profile and then you’d say, “Oh, I’m gonna contact this person.” You might go into a chat room and talk to them. So that’s how I met Karen. But what I had put in my profile is that I love dogs and I play hockey so Karen loved hockey and she was a dog trainer and she had her own training school. So we met on this thing and it turned out, we only lived a mile apart from one another. 

Paul Ward: 

Wow! What are the odds of that?

Russ Avison: 

I know, really. So then we chatted back and forth and it was probably two months before we actually met in person. Then once we met- I had just sold business. I had, so I was hanging out with Karen, doing her training and I would travel around. We went all over the place, Canada and Mexico and things. I was going to seminars and learning all about the professional way of training. Finally we were at a show in San Diego and PetSmart had a booth set up- they were looking for trainers. Karen said, “Why don’t you go talk to them?” Well, I did and I got hired. After about 4 months of being a trainer with PetSmart, they elevated my position to train other trainers. I ended up going to the corporate offices and helping develop a training program for their stores. I did that for a long time and I broke out on my own. So it just happened that way. It’s one of those things that was just natural for me. It just, for some reason, it just makes sense. There’s a behaviorist named Temple Grandin, who in her own right, is amazing. She’s autistic.

Paul Ward: 

And there was a movie about her.

Russ Avison: 

Yes. With Claire Danes , which is a great film. But at any rate, Temple Grandin was helping cattle farms because what they were trying to do is get the cows to go up through the shoots into the slaughter place. But That was one of the things they were always resistant to.  So Temple Grandin had the ability to kind of see things from the perspective of the animals. She told them how to change the way they move the animals and how to change the shoots and the animals were all comfortable in doing it because she saw it from a different perspective. I’m not saying that I’m anything like it, but I do kind of see things from the dog’s perspective and I understand how they think, and it was kind of natural for me. So it’s been easy.

Paul Ward:

Interesting. So why do people get dogs and not get them trained? It would seem like it would just be kind of a natural next step.

Russ Avison: 

I’ve asked that question a lot. The problem, I think, is that a lot of people growing up, they had a family dog and they never, as kids, they never had to deal with the dogs. So, “Oh, we had a dog and I guess we just get a dog.” It’s not that way at all. First of all, the number one reason that dogs end up in shelters in this country is for misbehaving. Poorly behaved dogs. I did not know that the number one age that dogs are given up for at the shelters is 2 years old. 

Paul Ward:

Really? Wow!

Russ Avison:

They’re so young because that’s when they start to come into their own, they’re really mature at that point. So, with dogs, it’s not about, ‘Do you have a good dog or a bad dog?’ It’s, ‘Do you know how to communicate with your dog?’ All day long, people are talking in “human” and dogs are listening in “dog” and this just doesn’t match. So really when I train dogs, I’m not really training the dog as much as I’m training the person on how to communicate with their dog. So the dog understands what they want. Most people know what they want their dog to do. They just don’t know how to get it across to them.

Paul Ward: 

They need to communicate in “Dog.”

Russ Avison: 

Correct. The other part of it, too, is that there’s a guy that I’ve seen out at this park. He’s got a Yellow Lab and he’s going through the park every Saturday. He’s got two hands on the leash and the dog is dragging him to the park. I always say, “Hey, how’s that walk coming?” And he’s like, “Oh, it’s gonna get better.” No, it’s not because that dog already knows his job: “You clip the leash on me on Saturday morning and I drag you through the park.” Why should the dog change? He’s getting exactly what he wants. There’s a saying, and I heard this is from an old baseball player. He said, “If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you always got.” The dog isn’t gonna change their behavior until you change. But when you change things, you can do anything you want with your dog. I mean, my dogs, when we’re done here, my dogs are gonna wash my car for me. 

No, but I mean, really it’s pretty amazing. You have a dog that every time the doorbell rings, they run to the front door and they’re barking and jumping. You’re trying to hold on for a minute. You’re trying to pull your dog back. If you continue that routine, it will never change. I train people a lot with their dogs that when someone knocks at the front door, the dog runs to the front door, they might bark. As soon as the person gets to the front door, the dog runs over and lays down on their pad and watches. While you open the door to see what’s going on. It’s not hard to train but most people don’t know how to do that. Training classes are not expensive. Privately. Yeah. I’m a little more money for that, but it’s okay. I mean, you’re gonna have a dog, hopefully for 15, 18, 20 years. What is it if you invest several hundred dollars in a dog now that’s gonna pay off for the rest of the time. You have a dog.

Paul Ward: 

Right? So you can teach an old dog new tricks?

Russ Avison: 

Yes. You can. Absolutely.

Paul Ward: 

What’s the most important thing to teach a puppy?

Russ Avison: 

If you get a new puppy, believe it or not, most people say, “Oh, it’s potty training. I don’t want the dog to pee in the house.” Well, that’s important but it’s not critical. It really isn’t. The dog’s life does not depend on that; Unless you’re really mean. The most important things to teach a puppy is:

Number One: That you are the most important thing in the puppy’s life. That puppy should want to focus on you all the time. 

Number Two: You want a very reliable recall. When you call your puppy. They should come to you because you may have the option at some time to call your dog and call them out of harm’s way. You might save their life by having a reliable recall. 

And: “Stay” is also a very important behavior to have if you’ve got stuff going on and there’s things that you don’t want your dog getting into: “Sit. Stay.” And they should stay.

I will also point out that we didn’t mention this, but it’s really important. There’s two basic philosophies on training. There is “Aversive Training” and there’s “Positive Reinforcement.” I’m a Positive Reinforcement trainer. I don’t use choke chains. I don’t use pinch collars. I don’t use electric collars. Ever. There are lots of people. You get a Golden Retriever and I guarantee there is gonna be somebody that’s gonna come along to you, a well-meaning friend or relative or neighbor and they’re gonna say, what? “You need to put a choke chain on that dog. You need to correct that dog.” No, you don’t. You need to train him. Everything I do is Positive Reinforcement. You show the dog where the payoff behaviors are. They gravitate toward those all the time. It’s easy.

Paul Ward: 

Why do you think people love their dog so much?

Russ Avison: 

I have actually a really good answer for that because we discuss this, especially when you lose a dog. I think that sometimes when you lose a dog, it’s worse than losing a person. I’m not comparing people to dogs in that respect but the way you feel about it, and I think it is okay. You’re married, right? 

Paul Ward:

Yep.

Russ Avison:

Okay. You love your wife.

Paul Ward:

I do.

Russ Avison:

Okay. But I guarantee that there are some things that your wife does that you think to yourself, “I just wish she’d knock that crap off.”

Paul Ward:

No comment.

Russ Avison: 

Okay. There you go. Because we all have our agendas. Doesn’t mean you don’t love your wife, but she thinks those things about you too. There’s certain things she thinks, “I wish you wouldn’t do that.” With dogs, they’re just there. They have no hidden agendas. They are there all the time. Whether you yell at ’em, they’re there for you all the time. So when they pass, I think it really is. It’s deeper in your heart. and I think that’s why we love our dogs because they’re just there for us.

Paul Ward: 

They’re in the moment.

Russ Avison: 

Yeah. And in fact, that’s a really good point because dogs live in the moment. They don’t worry about stuff over here that happened 20 minutes ago. They don’t think about what’s gonna happen in an hour. They just know that we’re here. I’m with you and life is good.

Paul Ward: 

Very cool. Russ Avison thank you so much for being our guest on this edition of Farm Talk.

Russ Avison: 

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Paul Ward: 

Greatly appreciate it. And of course we wanna thank our sponsors, The Money Store and The Escrow Hub and join us again next time for another edition of Farm Talk.