Farm Talk Podcast: Interview with Alex Frecker of Frecker Farms

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Paul Ward: Hey everyone. It’s Paul Ward here and welcome to another edition of Farm Talk. I’m so excited today because we have Alex Frecker with Frecker Farms in Carpinteria, California. Alex, welcome to the show. 

Alex Frecker: Thanks Paul. I’m happy to be here. 

Paul Ward: This show is brought to you by Escrow Hub and The Money Store. So what is Frecker Farms?

Alex Frecker: Frecker Farms is a certified organic row crop farm, located in Carpinteria, California. We’re 40 acres and very diversified. We grow avocados – it is the only tree crop that we grow. But everything else is diversified row crops. So kind of whatever you would assume to see at a fresh market, we probably grow.

Paul Ward: I understand that you have been a farmer since a very young age. I think you started at, I think 25?

Alex Frecker: Yeah, I started this business when I was 25. Before that I had quite a bit of experience working for a family friend who became a mentor of mine since I was like 13 doing farmer’s markets and whatnot.

Paul Ward: Because usually you think of farmers as, you know, in their fifties, sixties. 

Alex Frecker: Yeah. That’s a  problem in the country right now. I think the average farmer is, like 62, I think, I want to say really. That’s going to be a thing that we’ll have to deal with in the next generation.

Paul Ward: So you have had a passion for it since you were a teenager? 

Alex Frecker: It was more like proximity, I’d say first off and it was a good job that helped me buy my first car and gave me some autonomy. After that, it did become a passion. It was really fun. I think my first exposure was being able to sell produce at farmer’s markets and just realizing what a community-based job it was. It just felt like it was important and people had a lot of  interest in it and wanted to support it.

Paul Ward: It felt good, huh? And you had a mentor who got you started?

Alex Frecker: Yeah, John Givens. I actually knew the family from playing roller hockey in Santa Barbara, ironically enough. After that, I took a job with him working at the Santa Barbara Farmers Market every Saturday, which was great. with his youngest son and it just kinda went from there. 

Paul Ward: So you started and you had like a three acre parcel to begin; tell us about that.

Alex Frecker: Yeah, it was right up here on the other side of that hill on Rincon Road and it was actually four acres. It was just me at first and it was pretty crazy for a couple of years. But I was ambitious and was able to get into the Pacific Palisades Farmers Market, which is a farmers market that I was selling at for John previously. So I already had a clientele there that knew me. That was helpful. The rest is history; I started getting part-time employees, hired some friends and started honing in on Spanish a lot more, which I realized was going to be important. 

Paul Ward: Would you pay your friends in beer? 

Alex Frecker: I don’t even think I had enough money for that at that point!  I think it was more just whoever wanted to come work and get a nice workout out of the farm. Eventually we were able to start selling at Farmers Markets, we generated some income and jit ust kind of went from there. It was meager means, but you know, work pays off.

Paul Ward: Then you grew fairly quickly. I mean you kind of grew from three acres or four acres to 30 plus acres quite rapidly. 

Alex Frecker: Yeah, I think the first two years we were at four acres and then after that we rented some property out here- an additional 11 acres and there were other tenants on the property farming simultaneously. Since then we just started acquiring those acres. Now we rent the whole property. We have been renting the whole property since I think 2018. It’s working out nicely.

Paul Ward: I imagined with that expansion, you had to get a lot of new equipment because growing on three acres is a lot different than growing 30 plus. 

Alex Frecker: Constantly and learning how to do things differently. So it went from kind of hand techniques; we still do a lot of stuff by hand out here, but in order to scale you have to mechanize., So we definitely learned how to get the right tools and how to use them properly. We’re still in that phase. Definitely. Always acquiring, acquiring and learning.

Paul Ward: That’s awesome. Now you’re certified organic, correct? What made you?, I mean, for some people that’s an easy answer, but what made you decide to go organic versus conventional? 

Alex Frecker: Part of it was proximity. I think that if I grew up in Ohio and met another John Givens in Ohio who farmed, not organically but conventionally, I  imagine that I would probably be doing that there. I think that’s part of it. As I learned what it meant to be growing organically, there’s a lot of pride in that. It’s something that I’ve wanted to sustain. So we got certified right off the bat. We actually got certified organic before we started growing. 

Paul Ward: You Did?! You didn’t have to wait a (three year period?)

Alex Frecker: We started and had no agricultural record. So there was no spraying that occurred on the property. So in that scenario, you’re actually able to convert that property to organic right away. You just have to have an initial inspection. So we were lucky. I was hoping to find a property like that, but also felt pretty lucky to have that experience.

Paul Ward: I would imagine being organic, you’ve got a pretty loyal following for sure. 

Alex Frecker: Yes, definitely. You know, the conversation grows around that concept. The fact that we are organic, the fact that we are using compost, that we’re trying to build soil and really create a healthy environment definitely helps retain customers. Also again, it’s a piece of pride, right? 

Paul Ward: Your soil is not dead. 

Alex Frecker: It’s quite different. If you dig around in the soil, you’ll find all kinds of critters for sure. 

Paul Ward: Your mission, “Fresh, Organic, Local.” What does that (mean)?

Alex Frecker: It kind of encompasses: what our goal is here? We do a mix of wholesale and retail. So we do a lot of direct marketing through our Farmers Markets. We also have our farm stand, which is happening today. We’ve produced CSA boxes for our community here and communities in Los Angeles.Even though the business is a mix of wholesale and retail, it’s all trying to aim locally. So our produce isn’t traveling much farther than Los Angeles or the Bay area. 

Paul Ward: The Bay area is pretty far; it’s 400 miles. 

Alex Frecker: Yeah. But in the scheme of farming, it’s not very far. A lot of Farms are shipping out of state and (even) out of country. So we keep it relatively local in that sense. It also helps us build community. So the fact that we have a strong foothold in the local community through our Farmers Markets that are between here and Los Angeles. I feel like we’re able to kind of generate these little communal hubs of, you know, transactions of organic produce, but also thoughts, concerns, considerations, and it’s good.

Paul Ward: Speaking of local- I went to a dinner (hosted) here at the farm. It was kind of a family style with a long table and there must have been 50 people on each side of the table. Your string of lights and everything grown here on the farm.Well, almost everything; I think was grown here on the farm and of course the organic beer garden too. 

Alex Frecker: Then community is everything. It’s definitely a goal of ours here and it’s been fun too. To kind of be that hub for people. Those dinners were fantastic and I miss doing them. I’m looking forward to doing them again soon now that we’re kind of out of the COVID. I think it seems like California is going to be opening up next week, which is great. We’ll definitely be having some parties out here shortly.

Paul Ward: That’s awesome. Tell us more about the Farmers Market. You’ve got a crew that drives around. 

Alex Frecker: Yeah. It takes time. It takes a dedicated crew of people. It takes a fleet of vehicles. It’s definitely production but it’s a system- you get it, it’s systematic. Just like we do with the farm and the growing process. We have our core group of employees that go to these markets. The main goal is just to represent the farm as well as we can. Again, to really go into these communities with the mindset of creating community. So I always let our employees know that it’s not just about the produce. It’s about the connection. It’s about a story.  That’s all part of it. We try to tailor towards that and I’m really proud of the group that we have that are helping us out with those Farmers Markets. 

Paul Ward: What are you growing here now? You’ve got avocados.

Alex Frecker: Avocados. Yep. We got two and a half acres of avocados between this orchard here and the orchard at my house. Then it’s row crops. So diversified. About 40 different varieties of things year  round. Right now, tomatoes are just starting, cucumbers, zucchini, plant chilies, bell peppers. Then strawberries are one of our main commodities that we grow, which is kind of just getting to the tail end of the season right now. There’s things that we grow year round, like carrots, kale, radishes, dill, cilantro, parsley, chard, rugala, I’m not going to hit them all, but there’s (some).

Paul Ward: There’s a lot. And you have boxes that people can buy?

Alex Frecker: Yeah, we did that through the pandemic. That was one thing that was really unique about having a business like we have, which is, you know, somewhat robust but definitely still nimble and flexible enough to make changes when the world changes. Right. We saw a lot of that last year. So we were able to pivot in different ways that allowed us to still sell produce, because we were an essential business, but also really to cater to our communities and do things in a safe, really conscious way. The boxes were a part of that. We were able to bring produce boxes down to Pacific Palisades in Los Angeles twice a week for a majority of the pandemic. That is now tapered down to a once a week activity that we do on Thursdays from three to five.

Alex Frecker: It’s still a hit, it’s still something that the community really desires down there but again, as things kind of morphed (and) in that the state’s opening up a little bit more, we’re going to pivot a little bit. We’ll have that still available for people. Then we’ll do a more robust set up at the Farmers Markets and continue on our wholesale and sell back to restaurants. That was a part of the business that depleted during this last summer. It’s not a huge part of our local retail, but it’s, again, something that really helps us kind of be meshed in the community. They like being able to sell to local restaurants. So that’s starting up again, which is really nice to see.

Paul Ward: With the diversified crops that you have, I’m just thinking about, when I go into the grocery store. It used to be when I was a kid, you know, blueberries were there for two weeks and it was some kind of ooze specialty, like my grandmother would buy blueberries, but my mom couldn’t afford them. Now, blueberries (are) all year long, everywhere. You don’t have to read the fine print and you don’t know what you’re eating. How does that work with your client base? Because you don’t always have avocado. You don’t always have that.

Alex Frecker: It’s a problem. That’s part of the personal problem of selling directly to people. As you kind of have to answer these questions, so we try to be transparent. I think that’s also the beautiful thing about having these direct marketing strategies is that you have the opportunity to be transparent. You have the opportunity to educate. It’s a little bit of work. It’s not always fun. Sometimes you’re not having a great day. Someone asks a stupid question, that’s part of it. (You have to) remember that they don’t know the side that you know of the situation and you educate. So that’s what I do. If we don’t have carrots, in fact, we had a string of about four weeks, this last winter where we didn’t have carrots. (That) never happened to us before. It was just the planting dates. So it rained in certain times where we weren’t able to get into the field. So we have that hole in that product. Just got to explain to people. It wasn’t fun. It didn’t feel good, but It was part of the process.

Paul Ward: Your employees. They need to know the ins and outs as well.

Alex Frecker: That’s part of my job. If I’m being the quarterback here, I have to really be clear at communicating with all the employees that go out and represent us at Farmers Markets. Also the backend, which is the backbone of this whole business; is our crew here. That’s constantly picking, planting, weeding; all the different jobs that we have to do here every day.

Paul Ward: It seems like just from touring, like your employees are more than just employees. It seems like there’s kind of a family comradery that you don’t see in a lot of bigger kinds of farms. Total observation. 

Alex Frecker: (That is) something that we’re trying to cultivate for sure. It’s the same way. I think about our small town of Carpinteria. It creates accountability. So if everyone’s on the same page and the communication’s clear,accountability is there as well. I think that’s helpful for raising people up and raising a business up.

Paul Ward: They just seemed enthusiastic as they were getting ready to get in the van and go to the Farmers Market this morning. They were just kind of like, ho-hum-ho.

Alex Frecker: I always check in with each other and make sure everyone’s doing well. And sometimes someone comes to work and they’re not feeling great and that’s understandable. I do our best to help support them.

Paul Ward: Sure. We’re kind of in a multi-year drought and it seems like we’re below normal every year now with rain. You know, people have wells and are pumping water out of the ground. How are you conserving water?

Alex Frecker: That’s a good question. We also have two wells. I would argue that if you did want to go out and row crop farm, like we do, especially in California you really do need a well source to use city water. I have some friends that do it. It’s really tough right now with the rates that they pay and also just a less responsible use of that resource. Not to knock anyone that’s doing it. Sometimes that’s the scenario. Sometimes there isn’t an ability to drill a well whether it’s financial or because of the topography of the terrain. But we have two wells and so we get to utilize those, which is great. We also have this feature that’s back in the distance.

Alex Frecker: It’s a five acre man-made reservoir. Oh, wow. So this property topographically we’re at the bottom of the Carpinteria Valley basin right here. It’s actually a watershed; it’s 500 acres of watershed that comes to this location when it’s really raining. So that man made reservoir was created to make this and usable. Otherwise I’ve seen pictures of this property in the sixties where it was a lake; the whole thing. so pretty much half the property is unable to be used all of a sudden. So we get to use that water when it does rain that fills up and then that percolates down in the soil, into the aquifer. So we’re able to collect all that water while simultaneously cleaning it, you know, soils the best filter around. So that’s pretty unique. In terms of how we grow, we use micro drip sprinklers.

Paul Ward: You’re not using rain, birds and watering all

Alex Frecker: We do when we’re trying to get soil prepared for planting, but in terms of irrigation, we only use micro drip. What that does is it allows for less of operation, it allows for better penetration of water. So we have the water on for less amount of time, but get a better saturation rate. It only waters exactly where we want it to water. So we have less weeds. The only issue is the fact that there’s a by-product, which is plastic petroleum. We can only use those so many times. So there is a negative aspect to it, but I’m hoping that in the future, we figure out ways to have recyclable or biodegradable plastics. We actually had a team from UCFC come by the other week that wanted to ask questions and interface with a farmer to kind of figure out how they can get their minds around this problem.

Paul Ward: I imagine with the mulches that you’re using too, that the soil stays moist.

Alex Frecker: Absolutely. It has better water retention. You get more even waterings and you actually get the increased benefit of raising the soil temperatures up a bit, which makes the microbiology that’s in the soil react and act a little faster. This helps the plant grow more robustly during the summer months. 

Paul Ward: How did the farm get started? 

Alex Frecker: I worked for John Givens doing Farmers Markets when I was in high school. And then I went off to UC Irvine to go to college. I actually would commute from UC Irvine to Pacific Palisades every Sunday to meet John’s wife at the market to do the market with her. So that was a great summertime job. After that, I was in my last year of college, I had a business management degree. I didn’t know what the hell I wanted to do!

Alex Frecker: I remember going and meeting John and his wife at their house for dinner. I really wanted to ask John if I could work full time for him. There just wasn’t a good opportunity, the whole dinner, when I was talking. I wanted to get him alone so I could ask them this. I was really nervous. At the end of the night I left because the night was over and thankfully John walked out with me. Kind of behind me; out the front door. It was a perfect opportunity. So I asked him if I could work full time. He said, of course. So I came and worked for John for four years where his farm was in Galena.

Paul Ward: Okay. So not too far, about 20 miles away. 

Alex Frecker: Yeah. It’s a 200 acre certified organic (farm) between Galena and Bealeton. At the time it had 12 or 13 satellite properties. So a very big farm, a lot of inefficiencies and having all those multiple properties. A need for tons of equipment, people, transportation, all those different things. So it was really exciting. There was so much going on. And in those four years, you know, I learned Spanish. I learned how to do all the accounting and the paperwork in the office. I created his “Good or Good Organic Practices Program,” which is something that we all had to do at that point. I learned how to manage a crew. I learned how to grow fruits and vegetables.

Paul Ward: That’s right. ‘Cause you didn’t go to school for agriculture. You didn’t go, it was all experiential. 

Alex Frecker: So I had a mind for business and management and some resources to put those into practice, but had no experience outside of just working on the farm, which I honestly would argue in retrospect is a really positive thing. I think for me, I learned so much better while doing and making mistakes and figuring it out as we go. But at the end of those four years, I was ready to do more. I approached John, when I thought it was an appropriate time; sometime after work. I told them that I was ready to do more and said, you know, if you could pay me a salary, I’d run your farm for you. You could take more time off or manage me from a distance. So you don’t have to be here as often. I should’ve known John better. That Farm was his baby. That farm is like his child. He’s cultivated the crops. He was cultivating this business and he enjoyed it and he needed it. He told me that he knew that if I wanted what I wanted in life, I’d have to go and do this on my own, which at the time was devastating. I thought I was going to just get a raise and work a little harder and figure things out. He’s going to go on vacation. Everything’s hunky dory. So it just caught me off guard. I remember going out to his son’s house who lived on the property, his oldest son, Matt, and pretty much probably just like crying and just feeling really down. Like I shouldn’t have asked him that. Maybe I should have just let things be.

Alex Frecker: Maybe it was too soon. Maybe I angered him. Then as a couple days went on, I realized I had a decision to make and it was either stay or let myself get pushed out of the nest and try to figure things out on my own. That’s what I ended up doing. Looking back in retrospect, it was the best decision and John telling me, “No” and that I needed to go off and do this on my own was the best thing he could have done for me. Everything happens for a reason. 

Paul Ward: Yes. With motivation and a goal in mind.

Alex Frecker: Definitely. That’s the funny thing, as I went off on my own, I remember there was a bit of spite, you know, there’s a bit of anger that was kind of the fuel that I was using to get things working. Cause God forbid, I went out on my own and didn’t solve the problems I needed to solve, you know? As I realized that I was capable and that things could happen the way I wanted to, (all that) thankfully dissolved and we’re great friends. He’s still a huge part of my life, a big mentor of mine. I call him with any kind of questions and he calls me (too).

Paul Ward: That’s awesome. Yeah. That’s a great story. It feels good. Very cool. So for those that don’t know, what is the process for growing a crop?

Alex Frecker: We do pretty much everything in house, which I think is kind of rare for a farm, our size. I do the seed;, germinate seeds. We seed them by hand and the flats propagate them. And then when they’re at the right point, you know, maturation, we transplant them. So it’s the whole thing. It’s literally from seed to harvest, to procuring the harvest, to selling the harvest. Which I would argue, you know, in a small diversified business, is a huge power in our business. To have this vertical integration of going from a seed product to a finished product that we’re actually selling at retail value.

Paul Ward: Wow! So you take the seeds out of the tomatoes at some point?

Alex Frecker: We don’t do all that. So, pardon me. It’s not a completely closed loop, which is fantastic (for) people that do do that. We’ve tried that before in the past, you know, saving seed and whatnot. You have to have a seed that is like an heirloom variety so that it can actually produce the same genetic components for the next set of offspring. When we use hybridized seed, if you were to use that seed of that product, you would get different phenotypes from the actual seed that you planted. So you’d either get something that’s more related to the mother genetics or the father genetics. So you could do that, but you would get slightly different harvests every time. So you kind of wonder what you’re going to get a hundred percent of. After a little bit of time, I’m sure you could select it’s genetics, basically.

Alex Frecker: You can select aspects of fruit that you really like and keep using that seed. Eventually you will be able to stabilize those genetics. So it’s a process. That’s all something I would love to do in the future. It’s something that’s not super related to the production side of things, which is what we’re doing here. But in terms of my own, I like tinkering around. I would love to have it right. A little laboratory where we’re looking at genetics, you know, growing things specifically in the ground and knowing that this is a different phenotype from that phenotype and kind of seeing the variation that occurs.

Paul Ward: But it’d be kind of hard to monetize that when you’re just trying.

Alex Frecker: We were already like, yeah, it’s just drowning right now with work. Especially in June, it would not be something that works out, but it definitely tickles my fancy. 

Paul Ward: What’s it like relying on Farmers Markets? I mean, it’s kind of different every day.

Alex Frecker: It is different every day and it definitely goes through its cycles. So like right now we have strawberries, which are one of our all-star products. You go to the market, the first thing you smell is fresh strawberries coming off the table. So times are good right now. We have a lot of diversity in the field and a lot of diversity on the table. Conversely, in the winter time you could have a rainy market, which now you’re out there wet. Everyone’s not feeling very good. The vibe’s low, you know, that’s a big part of Farmers Markets is the transaction is in terms of energy too. So if our employees, or myself, are out of market and we’re freezing cold and we’re soaking wet and water is dripping on everything, it’s just not going to be very fun. You know, you can imagine everyone’s trying to get in and get out and move on with their day. Right? Conversely, you go to a market and it’s 75 degrees and there’s music playing and you can smell everything. It’s so aromatic because it’s warm . It’s just the ingredients for a potentially great market. 

Paul Ward: Yeah, Farmers Markets, are they competitive or collaborative? I mean, if everybody has strawberries…

Alex Frecker: That’s another great question. It’s both. Part of the market management’s job is to manage that. So you don’t want to be putting, like, for instance, if he had four strawberry growers in a market, you don’t want to put the four strawberry growers right next to each other. You want to spread them out throughout the market. And then markets are different. Like we just started a market in Ojai on Thursdays. It’s the Ojai Community Market. It had its first market last Thursday and it’s all organic vendors. So no one that’s there is growing conventional produce, which that’s the first market that we’ve joined that has that kind of standard; of what they want to be  selling out of a marketplace.

Paul Ward: Someone can just go in knowing automatically that, “Hey, anything I buy here is organic.”

Alex Frecker: Legally on our end, liability wise, you are supposed to have things posted. So we’re supposed to post our organic certification. We’re supposed to post our signage. but that’s exactly right. And that’s pretty cool. Was great. Again, I’ve never been involved in a market like that before, so it’s exciting.  So Farmers Markets during the week: Tuesday, Santa Barbara, downtown Wednesday, we have our farm stand and we’re also in Larchmont on Wednesday and Thursdays. We’re in Carpinteria locally. Ojai. Then we also do our Pacific Palisades box draw drop off Saturdays. We’re in Calabasas and also downtown Santa Barbara. Again, on Sundays we’re in Ojai. Melrose. Larchmont Pacific Palisades and Brentwood. So it’s the big schedule, 13 market places a week.

Paul Ward: Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. Very cool. So this has been Farm Talk. Thank you so much for checking in. Our sponsors are Escrow Hub and The Money Store. You can find Farm Talk with Paul Ward on Amazon Music, Spotify, Apple Podcast and of course, YouTube.